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September 17, 1999: Screens / Expanding Cinema
by Athina Rachel Tsangari
Austin Chronicle: You started your career as a painter. How did you make the transition from painting to avant-garde film and later on to experimental music? Michael Snow: Before I went to New York in 1963 I was playing piano in jazz orchestras professionally, and I was also painting. I've been continuously doing visual, gallery work, painting, installations, sculpture, photography since 1962. There hasn't been a transition from one to another; I've continued them all. I started playing music when music was invented. I'm really ancient! (laughs) Austin Chronicle: From early on, your work seems to be preoccupied with the element of time. Michael Snow: I've always been interested in variations. Between '61 and '67, in pretty much every possible medium and material, I used the same subject, the cut-out silhouette of a walking woman (it's called "Walking Woman Works"). Through this process of experimenting with variations of two-dimensional surface, I became interested in the idea of a series of variations presented in time, rather than in space, one after another, which is exactly what the film frames do. That's how I arrived to New York Eye and Ear Control [NYE&EC] in '63. Its title also implies a simultaneity between image and sound. Music is not only used as a way to tell you that this is sad, or this is happy, as it's used in narrative films. I always disliked that. In my films I've tried to give the sound a more pure and equal position in relation to the picture. Austin Chronicle: The soundtrack for NYE&EC is pretty legendary in the world of free jazz. Michael Snow: Oh yes, it's by one of the most amazing free jazz groups. It's Albert Ayler, Don Cherry, Roswell Rudd, John Tchicai, Sunny Murray, and Gary Peacock. I had just come across the music of these people, and I was completely knocked out. I had arrived in New York two years before, hoping that I was going to stop playing music and make it as a visual artist, try to get gallery shows and all that, which I did do. But running across all that music that was going on in New York at the time changed my plans! For me, there was an immediate connection between free jazz and New Orleans jazz, in which I had been previously involved, playing Louis Armstrong, Hot Five. But the point that I'd like to make is that, although I was very affected by all these great players, after a while I felt some differences of opinion with what they were doing in their sessions. They [the NYE&EC musicians] all used to play "heads," you know, a tune of some kind, and then a solo, and then "head" again, and I found myself disagreeing with that. When I had them come to the studio to record the soundtrack, I was careful to tell them that I didn't want any themes, but as much as possible ensemble playing. They accepted and they performed this way, but, in my opinion, this is one reason for which the music is so great. I mean, they're great, fantastic musicians, but they were stuck in that business of the statement of theme, alternating with solos. That's when I started working on my own music, which is what you'll hear with my trio, CCMC. Hmm, see, this is what happens, everything gets confused in these interviews! Austin Chronicle: We can't really talk about your films unless we talk about your music and vice versa. Michael Snow: True. Then perhaps we should talk about CCMC now? See, CCMC as a group has existed since 1974 having gone through many member changes. This crew is its current manifestation. Its philosophy from the beginning has been totally spontaneous composition. Austin Chronicle: What does it mean? Michael Snow: It means making it up as you go along. Or are you asking what does CCMC mean? Austin Chronicle: That, too. Michael Snow: Well, it could be many things. It could be "Cynthia Can't Marry Chuck." Another one is "Champagne, Chablis, Milk, Cognac." [laughs] Austin Chronicle: Do you have another one?
