Map your mates. Map your phantoms. – A paradisial, phantasmagorical survival trip through the minds of young artist driven initiatives.
By Valerie Oberleithner and Agnieszka Ryszkiewicz
“The history of art nowadays is the story of its groups.”
Jean Cassou, Les sources du XXe siècle. Paris, RMN, 1990, p.17
We met in Paris on a golden october day to discuss about emerging dance micro-communities. About their paradigms, their paradises, their utopias. We discussed the ones we are part of and the ones we slightly know. Our fantasies made us curious about the fantasies of others. We set up a map and this is where we went …
Let's listen to the initiators talk about others initiatives. Let's listen to their perspectives, fictions and realities around something that is articulating itself.
Fly with us to Vienna, Angers, Berlin, Bucharest and other destinations.
Explore with us the boundaries of reality!
Check out your “surroundings” and feel very welcome to comment.
Michelle Moura about “Inconsumivel” or the story of a box
Where do they meet?
They are called “Inconsumivel.coma”. They first met at Danceweb 2009 in Vienna, and as they felt that there was something powerful in this first meeting, they started to look for ways that could make their relations exist even if they are far from each other. “Inconsumivel.coma” includes a lot of people who were part of Danceweb, but the girls who are actually carrying this project now are Acerina (Spain), Ana Trincao (Portugal), Elisabete Finger (Brasil), Cristina (Portugal/Amsterdam).
So, some weeks after finishing Danceweb, the dancewebbers organized a one week residency at “Oficinas do Convento” in Montemor-o-novo/Portugal to think together about the best way of self-organization. They needed to create a strategy to stay connected in a creative and productive way beyond geographical distances. Basically, “Inconsumivel” has a concrete territory of exchanges, meetings, and tenderness that is a BOX. And the box is mobile.
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
There is no leader. In September 2009 - the moment that “Inconsumivel” emerged – a small group negotiated ideas and “tools” in order to concretize the desire to maintain some exchange between them. Leaders? What is interesting for me is to see the potential of this proposition that they built together – encounter + practice – that can invite them to share artistic and political visions.
Where does their money come from?
Once created, “Inconsumivel.coma” took into consideration that the actions of its members should happen “without money” , or at least just with the amount of money that they individually could provide.
So, now it's time to explain how the thing works…
“Inconsumivel” has a “dispositive” that creates possibilities of communication. The dispositive is a “box”! This box will be the container of “artistic objects”, in the largest possible sense. The box will always travel with some of the members of “Inconsumivel”. These have time to work on something to dispose inside the box, and thereafter choose its next destination. It is a sort of mail art! The exchange of the box will stop once there is no space anymore to add anything else. There is no deadline. Things can happen slowly or quickly … there is no external duration frame. Also, there is no desire to make any final object, no piece, no performance, nothing that could be sold.
Do they do what they say they do?
They have a blog to communicate and describe what is happening to the box.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
I think that everybody needs somebody!
I think that the first meeting at Danceweb was a quick affair, and “Inconsumivel” is the tentative to go beyond the superficiality of this first affair. I think that they see that there is something powerful when they are together. They find pleasure in being together. Some meetings are really intense.
I think it's important to define conditions for keeping in touch and more than that, go deeper into relations. If one knows everybody in the “dance world” , but does not develop anything with anyone else, one is always alone. It can be exciting to meet different people all the time, but to increase the quality of the relation time will be required.
The name of the emerging artists' initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of:
The “leading group”: Acerina Ramos Amador, Elisabete Finger, Cristina Planas Leitao, Ana Trincao. Their website ist at http://inconsumivel.wordpress.com/.
I am part of Couve-Flor Minicomunidade Artistica Mundial (Cauliflower Mini Worldwide Artistic Community), from Curitiba/Brazil. We are: Candida Montes, Cristiane Bouger, Elisabete Finger, Gustavo Bitencourt, Michelle Moura, Neto Machado and Ricardo Marinelli. Our website is www.couve-flor.org.
Radek Hewelt about Cooperativa Performativa
Where do they meet?
Valerie Oberleithner asked me to talk about Cooperativa Performativa. (laughs) Cooperativa Performativa is a group based in Romania. It consists of five artists from the performance and dance fields. The artists are from Bucuresti.They work in a kind of dance centre. I think it is even called dance house. They have a studio. It does not belong only to them. It belongs to the community. Cooperativa Performativa is one of the founders of this dance centre. Therefore they have the privilege to use the studio.
The internet as a virtual space is not an issue. One of their goals is to share one space, one physical space.
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
There is no leader! This is maybe the most important point about their working strategies. They are “the anarchists”. They do not like leaders. Furthermore they work independently from each other. This means that Cooperativa consists of five artists who work on five different projects. Also economical reasons made them work in this way: “Why do we not work on these five projects by sharing one studio? Why do we not just use each other for our own purposes?” They formulated rules how this way of cooperation could function. One rule: there is no leader, you are independent, you can always say no. You do not even have to come for the rehearsals. It is basically free and totally independent. Cooperativa Performativa is not about working for a group. It is rather using the sources a group or a collective offers. They are “the anarchists”. They do not have the goal to create something together. Everyone works on his own project, for a specific time, in a specific place.
Cooperativa Performativa reflects on its own working strategies. Sure a lot of conflicts appear. For example some would like to work with very loud music and some would like to work with silence. The task is to find solutions without leadership. What drives them to be in a studio is working on their own projects. Money reasons, too, made them decide to work in this way. Five artists using one studio at the same time is very economical. Beyond this they work with this situation. They know each other pretty well. They are old friends, colleagues.
Do they have any political vision?
I think they do. The rules of Cooperativa are very close to anarchy. But I do not know if each of them could be defined as an anarchist. Each of them is so different. There is something which all of them share: They are very radical in their actions and they all question the structure of a performance.
Do they share artistic practices?
Sometimes they share artistic practices, but usually not all of them at the same time (laughs). You may always ask someone who is working in the same space to help you with your proposal. This is how you share artistic practices. For example you say: “I would like to show you something.” You show something and afterwards you get feedback from the others. This is one of the artistic practices which they do quite frequently. Everything happening in the studio is a practice, even if it is destructive; even if you want to leave the space. What is clear to everyone, you come there to work; it is not a time to meet friends. The focus is clearly on working. Everything that was happening there could influence one's own work.
Where does their money come from?
They are involved in a dark business. They are somehow connected with the Romanian Mafia … It was kind of blurry … this is what I heard.
From whom?
From Edi and Florin … Maria also. I do not think they do dirty business but there is something … they are involved in some actions like kidnapping to get money, some radical actions in parliament … I don t know excactly what but …
Do they do what they say they do?
Yes, they do! They are very honest with what they say they do … they do it. (laughs) Do I have to say more about this?
No, no, it's enough! …
How do they differ from a group therapy?
Cooperativa as such is based on working. Working on artistic output. This involves the artists of Cooperativa in their own processes. I would say they are five egos who are working on different aims and goals, but they use a group to support their work. They are not serving a group as a principle.
They are “using” each other as a source, for help, as a source of influence. Each of them represents an equal artistic partner. There is constant communication between different media they are working with. Constant communication in the space they share. That is also what creates their own works. They choose this way of working. They agree on this strategy of always influencing each other.
What do they do together that they cannot do alone?
They could not be influenced by others if they worked alone. This working strategy created a group, but a group of very independent units.
The name of the emerging artists' initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of?
I was talking about Cooperativa Performativa (Bucharest, Romania)
I am part of BART (Vienna, Austria)
Jean-Baptiste Veyret-Logerias about “Embassy of”
Where do they meet?
I guess they meet according to chance or to their activities whenever these activities match in time and space. But I also imagine they don't gather very often all together (if ever there is a determined number of people for this group). Because I think their group is based more on the relationships that exist within the group than on making the group itself exist. I would say then that they must meet a lot virtually, through the internet, skype meetings, emailing, facebook …
Who is the leader and does everyone share his/her vision?
There is no leader in this group, and no single artistic vision. I think their closeness comes from the common experience they had when they met all together during one month in one space, and from their wish to gather thereafter and form a group. I think they share their differences as much as their similarities, be they political or artistic, probably because they just want to learn from one another. Their practices must thus be part of the amount of information they share when they meet or get in contact.
Where does their money come from?
The group itself doesn't have any money. Each individual receives the money he can get from residencies in his own country or abroad. Since the group doesn't exist to the eyes of institutions it doesn't exist financially either for them. The money of the group has to be the money each one of the group puts in it.
Do they do what they say that they do?
I don't know what they say, but these people seem to be committed artists. I cannot imagine them not doing what they say. They are individually engaged and cautious in respecting the principles or ethics they stand for. The group would reflect the same engagement I guess.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
I don't think they wish to share their personal metaphysical problems of living in this world. I guess they gather to find a strength in the group that they could not reach on their own: a level of political and artistical investigation, a level of sharing practices, sharing ideas, finding new impulses for their own work. I think they want to get the feeling they can individually be part of a group that doesn't suck up the individuals but allows them to grow and develop.
Space to answer an unasked question.
What do you think the group looks like?
I think it exists more like a network, a group that is created to open for the individuals a possibility of sharing. An open door to some new experience that can bring each one of the participants to some other place he or she couldn't have discovered on his/her own. Not a group that is active on a daily basis, but a possibility open for whatever occasion to share.
The name of the emerging artists' initiative you were talking about?
“Embassy of”.
And the one you are part of?
Sweet & Tender collaborations.
Elisabete Finger about Sua Cia
Where do they meet?
I'm talking about “Sua Cia” (“your company”), composed of Clara Trigo, Thais Bandeira, Nathalia Valério and Eduardo Pinheiro. They met in Salvador Bahia, and nowadays they work in a studio and have an office lent by some kind of institution (or something like this). They also have a virtual space where they share information with other groups or people who are interested in contemporary art.
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
There is no leader, each one is acting according to his or her special and specific ability. I feel Clara and Nathalia are really dedicated to communication activities, while Thais and Eduardo are more engaged in artistic production. They all have a strong common artistic and political vision focused on producing art in collaboration, organizing artistic meetings and doing what they call “creative connections”. There is a remarkable change in the history of this group that is reflected in its name. Some years ago they called themselves “sua cia de dança” (“your dance company”), and nowadays the word “dance” has disappeared. They explain that finally they are interested in art in a larger sense, and they are proposing their “creative connections” in a very open way.
Where does their money come from?
They have different money sources … like all independent artists in Brazil, they have to deal with huge financial instability. I think that they mainly get money from government funds or from awards given by private institutions for specific projects. I don't know if they have any regular support for daily activities of the group. Some of them are also teaching (dance, pilates, etc.).
Do they do what they say that they do?
I think they do even more than they say that they do. They are really devoted to building a creative context around them. They produce artworks and propose many events which are strengthening the relations between art (and artists) and the social field in which they are acting. Recently they managed to produce some videos proposing discussions around contemporary art with both artists and non-artists interviewed on the streets. These videos have been shown on a popular channel in Brazilian television. They also work for Red Sudamericana de Danza (http://www.movimiento.org/), to unite different artists from South America.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
They are almost like a family (Eduardo and Clara are married and have a child). It's not hard to realize that the group's relation is based on affection, respect and love, and for me it is obviously the basis of their work's strength. But much more than feeling good as friends they manage to change their environment through art, and this again benefits others.
The name of the emerging artists' initiative you were talking about?
I'm talking about “Sua Cia” – www.suacia.blogspot.com.
And the one you are part of?
And I'm part of Cauliflower Mini Wordwide Artistic Community (www.couve-flor.org) and Inconsumivel.
Florin Flueras about Cooperativa Performativa
Where do they meet?
We meet anywhere, any time. Basically each of us can propose a place, a time and an intention (what to do). Who wants to come comes. We do not have any program or any obligations. Everyone does and proposes whatever he/she feels that helps his process. Each of us chooses how to use the interaction with the others and their proposals. (This is the same offline and online).
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
In the concept there is no leader. But unfortunately we had a parallel power issue going on all the time because we mixed the working process with our lives and we involved real feelings and conflictual relationships. The power problem associated with the masculine-instinctual-ego image was there most of the time. Actually in some parts the „ artistic“ part was secondary and the focus was on dealing with power related conflicts. The politics, the governance of the group was an issue almost all the time.
Where does their money come from?
We got the money from some Romanian cultural organisations. Actually the name „ Cooperativa“ also comes from our intention to share the money and apply it together instead of making a contest for funding between us by applying separately.
So we preferred to do five projects with the resources (space, time and money) that normally go into one project.
Do they do what they say that they do?
Yes, we did more than we proposed - even more than we could deal with. We wanted to challenge property and ownership in the artistic world, but we arrived at dealing with property and ownership in human relations, in couples.
Sometimes our process looked more like telenovela stuff.
Looking back now, this process dislodged some unquestioned hierarchies and authorities in our small Romanian dance community, and some society taboos too.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
Mainly by the fact that in the beginning we had no problem, everything was fine between us (apparently), and we ended with big interpersonal and personal problems.
So there is this essential difference - instead of resolving we create problems. But there are also similarities like the action of symbolising, camouflage and projecting „the real problems“ in apparently artistic issues. Associated with the negation „ everything is just what it seems - some artsy problems“; but it was easy to feel all the time that there was so much more in the background.
Why did you decide to talk in this interview about Cooperativa Performativa ?
I guess I misunderstood it in the short conversation we had over skype and the conversation which I had with Radek over facebook. I understood that I should talk about Cooperativa Performativa. Radek asked me on facebook if Cooperativa Performativa still exists. He told me that you will ask me about Cooperativa.
An open question not on the list: Why all this?
People do anything to protect commodities and the status quo. This is the same for empires like the US which are ready to protect their way of living by attacking everybody, and people who accept being enslaved and selling their time in all kinds of jobs. Couples who prefer to cover up the unpleasant reality and make believe that everything is ok, and artists ready to apply verified and safe models of operation in order not to derange themselves and the system too much. So I think it is interesting to create situations - contexts that can push the experience outside the safe zone.
This situation of taking five persons to develop five different projects in the same time and space certainly can push you out of your territory (skills and means of doing performances). It proved to be an efficient way to challenge our powerful cultural and biological inscribed relation with authority, hierarchy, rules and taboos, even in groups of friends and couple relations. And yes, sometimes it is good to explode a little the boring activity of entertaining, the unchangeable ways of living, doing „art“ and „dance“. It is healthy to feel that what you are doing is mixed with life and can have repercussions and an impact on others, too.
The name of the emerging artists' initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of:
I was talking about Cooperativa Performativa.
I am also part of Cooperativa Performativa.
Marianne Baillot about Zoukak
Where do they meet?
They meet in a studio. I think they have a studio in the center of Beirut. They meet virtually through their website by posting information about their activities. They meet also via Skype. For example: Daya Hammoud, a member of this artist-driven initiative does not live in Beirut in the moment. She lives in Paris. This means she often has to connect virtually to the other members of this initiative. Danya is planning to move back to Beirut in july. She is planning to be fully in Beirut from July on. But at the moment I guess she is meeting with the other members of the collective via Skype or email.
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
Actually I am not sure if there is any leader.It is more an artistic collective. I think there are six members but I am not sure. On their website you can see a category which is called “about us”. In this category there is a list of members. Actually I am sure that there is no leader.I am also sure that they do not necessarily share the same artistic vision. Also because some of them come from theater, some come from visual arts and some come from dance. I do think that they have a political vision. They want to be involved in their local community. This is very special because most of the Lebanese artists have the wish to go away from their country. This initiative wants to develop activity in Beirut. They meet in order to create a space for the local scene. They invite other artists to work and to do workshop proposals. To be clear: We are talking about a country which is still – even if there is no war – in a fragile situation. I think the members of this initiative share the same idea: They need to make something happen even if there is a difficult context. They have to make things happen there even if it is not easy. There are not so many possibilities in Beirut. There are only a few possibilities for an artist to show his/her work. With their space they wish to give an opportunity to artists to meet, to show their work and to show knowledge.
Where does their money come from?
Danya told me recently in Paris that there is no ministry of culture in Lebanon which supports initiatives like Zoukak. The members of this initiative pay the rent for the studio out of their own pockets. When they organize a workshop they ask for a fee and they use it to pay the rent. I think this is very fragile.
Do they do what they say that they do?
Actually yes because if I take the example of Danya: Two years ago she told me that she wanted to be more involved in Beirut and now she is finishing her master in Paris and she decided to move back to Beirut. This is a big decision because she studied in France and she did her master in France and now she wants to be more engaged in her place of origin. I think this is nice, and I also think it is not only her who has a plan like that. There are more and more people who want to go back to their home countries. I myself: I’m going to Porto which is more decent to engage myself there. There are people who invest a lot in staying in big cities like New York but actually it is not the best place for their self-development. It is more rewarding to do things in a context where there is more necessity. You feel more useful in such a context. In a context in which you feel there is a necessity to do things it is more rewarding.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
This question is funny because I was a bit surprised when I saw their website. They have a category on their website which is called psycho-social, educational theater and the reference to drama as a technique. It is a discourse which is close to somatic technique but I did not understand it properly. There is a part on their website which seems to be a bit more therapeutic, I did not really understand what was it about but Danya told me that it is more easy to get money doing this kind of acts. This is what I understood: They are not doing therapy but in a way sometimes they rob the discourse of therapy in order to be supported or to get money from the educational sector. If the cultural system is not so developed and if culture is not considered by the state as something to invest in but more considered as maybe some artistic group, they have the tendency to develop a different discourse to receive money for education! One part of their website is called educational theater. Let me check: yes, psycho-social, educational theater. It says: “Zoukak, drama therapy workshop”. So they are really using the word “therapy”.
I have never heard of this but they refer quite much to drama therapy. Zoukak exists since 2006. On a part of the website they explain that their activities concern therapy, drama and theater. Maybe one of the group is more involved in this therapeutical way.
Where do you live now? You said you moved to Porto. Do you live in Porto?
I have a little room in Paris but I moved my furniture and a lot of stuff to Porto to be more based here. I wish for Porto to become the place where I return to!
The name of the emerging artists’ initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of:
I was talking about Zoukak (www.zoukak.org).
I am part of Sweet and Tender (www.sweetandtender.org).
Gillie Kleiman about Everybody's
Where do they meet?
The group meets both physically and virtually, and the work of the group is disseminated both physically and virtually, too. The meetings are sometimes initiated between existing participants only, through email and Skype and so on. At other times the meetings are initiated by one or more existing participants, but are open to and for others, who then might participate more regularly or in an ongoing fashion or not.
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
There is no single leader, but there are a handful of artists who are more likely to start parts of the activity, though everyone can. There is a common ‘vision’ or something like that, but rather than aiming for an abstract artistic goal the attention is given to the concrete creation and application of certain tools.
Many of the artists share artistic practices or work together within and without the group, and might have much in common in terms of their individual aesthetic or political orientations. The work of the group allows for a range of artistic practices, though perhaps there are certain fundamental principles that should more or less be agreed upon to be able to work.
Where does their money come from?
Different initiatives require different funds. I imagine that there is no ongoing funding, but that some activities attract some funds from partners like venues or festivals in order for the presentation of work.
Do they do what they say that they do?
Yes. You can see their work on the very detailed website, through the publication of texts, and through events. You can find out when things happen by being friends with more or less anyone who could be seen as involved in a certain part of the European dance and performance scene on facebook.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
Some of the work directly deals with thinking about ways to collaborate in different ways, or to communicate with others about art and other things. Other things can be activated alone, but the tools themselves have been developed in different directions by numerous people, and couldn’t have been produced alone.
Basically, the activities take in hand questions about sharing, re-using, offering, developing, owning – ideas that cannot be addressed in the same way solo.
I also imagine that the number of people involved helps to bring visibility to the work.
The name of the emerging artists’ initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of?
I was writing about Everybody’s.
I am part of Embassy of.
Christopher Engdahl about Sweet & Tender Collaborations
Where do they meet?
They meet in smaller or bigger groups at the events they organize. Their first year they met while doing small projects in Portugal, Greece, Serbia, and Germany. They rarely, if ever, meet all together, due to lack of funding and time. I think they communicate regularly via email.
Who is the leader and does everyone share his/her vision?
They don't have any centralized organization but the form of organization differs from time to time depending on in which context it's organized and who does it. They say that they strive for acknowledging every individual's requests and/or ideas.
Where does their money come from?
Each individual member applies for funding for themselves in their respective native country and from other companies/organizations.
Do they do what they say that they do?
Their work is visible through their organized events throughout the world.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
I guess a group therapy has the outspoken aim to care for/support the individuals' mental health, while Sweet & Tender does not have that goal.
Why are you interested in their activity?
My friend Pavlos Kountouriotis talked about them as they started their activity back in 2006/2007. I got interested in it due to its international engagement where they could aid each other across national borders and with the aid of Internet communication. They are organized in a decentralized manner which appeals to me, where centralization and control is consciously avoided.
The name of the emerging artists' initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of:
I was talking about Sweet and Tender (www.sweetandtender.org).
I'm part of Swedance.
Danya Hammoud about “Nature Theater of Oklahoma”
Where do they meet?
I am not sure but I think they meet in one of their apartments and they are working there. Maybe they also rent a space to meet.
Who is the leader, and does everyone share his/her vision?
There are two leaders. I think they are a couple. It is Kelly Copper and Pavol Liska. If they share one vision? I imagine that they do share a vision and I think it is the special vision of the two of them. I think the whole group is working on the base of this vision. I do not mean that the others follow but I think they like to get inside the vision of Kelly and Pavol. It might be a way for them to be part of something else – outside of themselves. Their work is pretty much about distance. And distanciation. I do not know if this word also exists in English. Meaning not to be close to what you are on stage. Distanciation, like Brecht said it.
I think they also have a political vision and this political vision is entirely in their artistic staging. It is not about putting political ideas or visions into their stagework but their work is in itself political I guess. They take very profane things, banal things, ordinary things and they put them in other words and in another way on stage. To put them on stage is already a political act. I do not know if they are famous but even if they are their way of promoting themselves through their website is pretty much that of underground people promoting themselves. They seem very modest and without any pretentios discourse about their work – for me that is very interesting nowadays.
It seems as if they are trying to stay kind of independent. I think they put a lot of energy into this independency. They do not get an institutionalized company. And this costs money, too, I think. Allowing yourself to be independent is a luxury nowadays.
Where does their money come from?
I guess when they started it was really from their own pocket. I think it stayed like this quite long until they got paid and until they started to be internationally known. The fact that they got paid for their presentations allowed them to keep on working. It seems like an autofunding. Or even if they have I think it does not allow them to continue. I think they have to count on their own productions.
Do they do what they say that they do?
I think they do it but I think they would like to be closer to doing what they say they are doing. But they already started to do what they want to do. Take a look at their website: their presentation. “About: We are the theater which has a place for everyone. Everyone in his place. If you decide to join us we congratulate you here and now.” And this for me is an example of what they want to do. I mean this independent financial way of living completely corresponds with their artistic and aesthetic vision. To have something that they want to share and to be accessible to everyone. Maybe it seems pretentious but I feel from them that it is really a will and it seems that they are on their track.
But I do not really know them. This is my priviledge. I do not really know them. I just know two of their works. If I knew them personally or if I worked with them my vision might be completly different. This is from the perspective of a spectator of their work.
And then we can still ask ourselves if it is important to know them personally.
How do they differ from a group therapy?
I think in any kind of group work there is a therapeutical effect. I know this word therapy is very controversial. I take it very simple. In every group of individuals who decide to work together there is a form of therapy. But their objective is not therapy – there is a difference there. I think they differ from a group therapy by their objectives. Therapy for me is a process. And their process is not therapeutical. It can be in certain ways but it is not their objective.
In my opinion there is also a big difference between a group and a community. From what I know and from what I can feel, they do not live in a community .They do not have to share the same kind of living.
I think having the will of being a part of the community you have to have a lot in common between you and the others. And this is what makes you disappear. While in a group individuals do not disappear.
If you could ask the “Nature Theater of Oklahoma” a question, what would you ask them now?
I would ask: If they worked on “Hamlet”, how would they start working on it?
Why did you talk about “Nature Theater of Oklahoma” as a young artist-driven initiative? Are they really that young?
Well, I thought in the beginning that they do not count as a young artist-driven initiative. I am thinking about how we use the term “young”. Is it “young” because the people are young or is it “young” because the initiative is young?
The name of the emerging artists’ initiative you were talking about and the one you are part of:
Talking about: “Nature Theatre of Oklahoma”.
I’m part of: Zoukak Theatre Company.
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